Sorry, dropped off the list by mistake. ________________________________ From: Fox, Kevin M Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 12:48 PM To: Sean McGinnis Subject: RE: [kata-dev] Proposal to migrate to a Slack alternative There are other projects in the openstack umbrella that have to cross the k8s/openstack line, such as kolla, openstack-helm, cloud-provider-openstack, maybe magnum, etc. And I expect the number to grow in the future. It is not just isolated to kata containers. Thanks, Kevin ________________________________ From: Sean McGinnis [sean.mcginnis@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 12:41 PM To: Fox, Kevin M Subject: Re: [kata-dev] Proposal to migrate to a Slack alternative The OpenStack community is already all in on IRC, so a slack discussion isn't too relevant there. And since Kata Containers is part of the OpenStack Foundation, but under its own governance, the OpenStack TC does not have any say on technical decisions made by the kata community. We can certainly provide opinions (we have no shortage of those ;) ) but this would not be the TC's place. I do not think K8s needs to lift and shift from Slack in order for Kata to do so. Since there is a lot of overlap for contributors, this likely means this would be adding a second (or likely third) communication channel for them to install, login, and monitor. But if we gated Kata choosing a different, more open, platform on getting adjacent communities to also make that switch, then I think we are already dead in the water. I think this needs to be a community decision based on the needs of this specific community. So I think the Kata community needs to decide if "open"-ness is important, and if so, what alternative is the easiest and most attractive to the overall group. Personally, I would love to see IRC as the near-realtime communication channel of choice, but I think there have been other equally functional alternatives. But with already good support from the OpenStack infra team [1], and many client choices [2][3][4][5], the only thing I think would be missed would be all the shiny emojis and gifs. :) [1] http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/ [2] http://webchat.freenode.net/ [3] https://www.irccloud.com/ [4] https://thelounge.chat/ [5] https://www.slant.co/topics/1323/~irc-clients-for-linux Opinions aside, I do think moving away from Slack is a very good thing to discuss. On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 2:23 PM, Fox, Kevin M <Kevin.Fox@pnnl.gov<mailto:Kevin.Fox@pnnl.gov>> wrote: It sounds like there are a lot of reasons to consider getting off slack. +1 for discussions around it. -1 for doing it too much *here*. The Kubernetes and OpenStack communities should be doing it as a whole. Shouldn't this be done at the openstack-dev list or the openstack-tc? and some equivalent at k8s? If kata-containers does it in isolation, then the solution kata-containers comes up with very well could isolate it from the other communities based on the other communities choices. Lets work together. Thanks, Kevin ________________________________ From: Anne Bertucio [anne@openstack.org<mailto:anne@openstack.org>] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 11:06 AM To: Graham Hayes Cc: kata-dev@lists.katacontainers.io<mailto:kata-dev@lists.katacontainers.io> Subject: Re: [kata-dev] Proposal to migrate to a Slack alternative Graham hits on many of my concerns about Slack. Slack was built for organizations where everyone is an employee—was never intended for open source collaboration, and they’re not building for us as they build future features (or take existing ones away). A major concern I have with OSS projects using Slack is that it does not have the guardrails that help everyone feel safe in a community—for example, individuals cannot block individuals. Another concern is the lost historical knowledge through the lack of logging. We are already losing information through the message limit (although we capture it currently via eavesdrop on IRC). Logging is only available to paid accounts, and while they give steep discounts to nonprofits (open source projects housed at foundations meets those requirements), the per-user fee adds up to be nontrivial, and there are many better ways to spend those community dollars. User inertia is real, and “Oh no not another tool” is a downside to migrating. That said, I think there is a balance between defining our own principles as a community, and being pressured into the trends set by others. Anne Bertucio OpenStack Foundation anne@openstack.org<mailto:anne@openstack.org> | irc: annabelleB