[kata-dev] Fwd: Proposal to migrate to a Slack alternative

Sean McGinnis sean.mcginnis at gmail.com
Mon Mar 26 19:42:24 UTC 2018

Sorry, I noticed after I sent that Reply wasn't set up to go to the list.

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The OpenStack community is already all in on IRC, so a slack discussion
isn't too relevant there. And since Kata Containers is part of the
OpenStack Foundation, but under its own governance, the OpenStack TC does
not have any say on technical decisions made by the kata community. We can
certainly provide opinions (we have no shortage of those ;) ) but this
would not be the TC's place.

I do not think K8s needs to lift and shift from Slack in order for Kata to
do so. Since there is a lot of overlap for contributors, this likely means
this would be adding a second (or likely third) communication channel for
them to install, login, and monitor. But if we gated Kata choosing a
different, more open, platform on getting adjacent communities to also make
that switch, then I think we are already dead in the water.

I think this needs to be a community decision based on the needs of this
specific community.

So I think the Kata community needs to decide if "open"-ness is important,
and if so, what alternative is the easiest and most attractive to the
overall group.

Personally, I would love to see IRC as the near-realtime communication
channel of choice, but I think there have been other equally functional
alternatives. But with already good support from the OpenStack infra team
[1], and many client choices [2][3][4][5], the only thing I think would be
missed would be all the shiny emojis and gifs. :)

[1] http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/
[2] http://webchat.freenode.net/
[3] https://www.irccloud.com/
[4] https://thelounge.chat/
[5] https://www.slant.co/topics/1323/~irc-clients-for-linux

Opinions aside, I do think moving away from Slack is a very good thing to

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 2:23 PM, Fox, Kevin M <Kevin.Fox at pnnl.gov> wrote:

> It sounds like there are a lot of reasons to consider getting off slack.
> +1 for discussions around it.
> -1 for doing it too much *here*. The Kubernetes and OpenStack communities
> should be doing it as a whole. Shouldn't this be done at the openstack-dev
> list or the openstack-tc? and some equivalent at k8s?
> If kata-containers does it in isolation, then the solution kata-containers
> comes up with very well could isolate it from the other communities based
> on the other communities choices. Lets work together.
> Thanks,
> Kevin
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Anne Bertucio [anne at openstack.org]
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2018 11:06 AM
> *To:* Graham Hayes
> *Cc:* kata-dev at lists.katacontainers.io
> *Subject:* Re: [kata-dev] Proposal to migrate to a Slack alternative
> Graham hits on many of my concerns about Slack. Slack was built for
> organizations where everyone is an employee—was never intended for open
> source collaboration, and they’re not building for us as they build future
> features (or take existing ones away).
> A major concern I have with OSS projects using Slack is that it does not
> have the guardrails that help everyone feel safe in a community—for
> example, individuals cannot block individuals.
> Another concern is the lost historical knowledge through the lack of
> logging. We are already losing information through the message limit
> (although we capture it currently via eavesdrop on IRC). Logging is only
> available to paid accounts, and while they give steep discounts to
> nonprofits (open source projects housed at foundations meets those
> requirements), the per-user fee adds up to be nontrivial, and there are
> many better ways to spend those community dollars.
> User inertia is real, and “Oh no not another tool” is a downside to
> migrating. That said, I think there is a balance between defining our own
> principles as a community, and being pressured into the trends set by
> others.
> Anne Bertucio
> OpenStack Foundation
> anne at openstack.org | irc: annabelleB
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